How many times have we declared this is the "Golden Age of Shortstops" only to have another "Golder Age" arrive later? A lot ... and I love it. I'm old enough to remember, barely, when the normal shortstops were like Mark Belanger and Chris Speier. I'll never forget the ARod-Nomar-Jeter trio and how often I'd tried to include Tejada in that foursome. Looking at these lists now, my goodness, the 1990s/2000s have nothing on the current crop of shortstops. MLB is like Little League now. The best player is at shortstop ... and I feel like that's how it SHOULD be.
You're right, and I think it comes in cycles, with every Golden Age feeling relative to a recent lull preceding it.
In 2024, had Witt Jr. with 10.4 fWAR, Henderson at 8.0, Lindor at 7.8, De La Cruz at 6.4, and several others with 4+ fWAR. That's quite a bit better than 2003 (ARod's last year at short) on the top end, while still having more depth.
But we could look at the midway point, 2014, and see that Jhonny Peralta led the way with 4.6 fWAR, and Erick Aybar and Ian Desmond were the only others more than 4 fWAR. The early 2000s were way better than the early-mid 2010s.
Gunnar has the ability to be a great shortstop, with crazy range and speed, and a ferocity to the way with which he gloves the ball and fires it to first on the run. But he's very young and prone to mental lapses, like last year when he was determined to have the most errors in baseball, during an era where they really don't want to credit you with one. It was alarming down the stretch when everybody on the O's started to fade outside of Zach Eflin. I imagine Gunnar (as well as Adley) levels up even further this coming season while learning to play a little more under control and harness the obviously immense talent he has. You could put him anywhere from #1 to #5 and could make a case. However, even as an O's fan, there's no way in hell he's above Bobby Witt Jr. right now.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but when MLB Network does their ranking, don't they look back at the last 2 years of data? So you may have had an amazing rookie year, but because it's just that, 1 year, they'll rank you lower than you might deserve to be. Or say a guy like Justin Turner, who was a utility man for a few years until it finally "clicked" with the Dodgers, I don't think he was as highly rated thar next season because he had 1 year of being a utility guy and 1 year of being the Star JT he became with LA.
An actual QWERTY keyboard has rows of 10, 9, and 7 letters.
This keyboard has, inexplicably, 9, 8, and 9... which does add up to 26 letters, but they will all be "wrong" somehow, because some letters must be out of place.
Can't disagree. The average subscriber would struggle to come up with their own list, simply because most of us follow either the American or National League but not both. Interleague helps a bit but not enough. This problem becomes tougher with a primarily defensive position like shortstop or catcher. Taking the coward's way out, Joe is 100% correct.
Brief rabbit hole. Mariner fans loved Omar Vazquez when he played in Seattle. People would sometimes come early just to watch him take infield. But, viewed through the eyes of a GM, you would come to realize he was a consummate showman but only a little above average as a defender. Now we have J. P. Crawford. He makes more dazzling plays than any shortstop in our division (including Corey Seager) but ranks as a below average fielder. I guess the experts are trying to tell me he does wonderful things when he gets to the ball, but doesn't get there as often as the great shortstops. Reminds me of Brilliant Reader Benjamin, J.'s post of a day or two ago where he talked about an outfielder who made great diving catches not being as valuable as an outfielder who gets to the ball earlier and makes a routine catch.
And they Loved Omar in Cleveland, loved him. One thing he did do, over time - he improved his on base skills, so they sometimes slotted him in leadoff/2nd in the lineup. Similarly, Lindor was moved to leadoff - VOILA! Not a direct compare, for years those Cardinal fans kept telling us - Omar doesn't compare to the Wizard. He really doesn't but he was a joy to watch! Since moving to DC area, in 2019-2020 Howie Kendrick was fun!
Of course, then, Baltimore sneezed, and the Nationals went into the "Big Sleep". In 2020 they hailed Dave Martinez - winningest mgr. for Nats, and then, hibernation! Speaking of bad contracts - Steven Strasburg - some deferred $$$+ deferred $$$ for Scherzer -No wonder Nats have nothing for 5 yrs. Eerily similar to the Tigers with the last 5 yrs. of Miggy's contract - Burdensome.
Don't disagree with the 1-4 Joe! Spot on! Plus, they're all young except Lindor. But since he bats leadoff now, he'll shine on offense. Correa & the Twins, maybe the Central's version of the Angels. Their stars, always get hurt @ the wrong time - Correa, Buxton, Lewis, Kepler, Rosario etc. Of course, the Tigers have Baez - another albatross contract. But the Royals, who've given the Guardians ... "fits"... Is the real deal! and he's young!
Joe - after listening to your video on HOF - you mentioned Frank Duffy! OMG. The Duffer played 1.5 positions when Oscar Gamble played left! He was instructed to run as fast as possible to LF to relay the cutoff throw!
This goes back to when Bill James positional lists, but he was correct then and you are correct now. The goal is "right now" and so many of these lists are ranking careers because they don't want to insult someone who was probably best 2-3 years ago. Your list is way better. James would always look forward, like you are doing. I don't care who was best 3 years ago.
I'm an Orioles fan and I love Gunnar to death. I think he's already our best play, even over Adley, and he will continue to be the better player. He's the rock of the franchise.
And even I would take Bobby Witt Jr over Gunnar Henderson at shortstop.
(I'd love to move Gunnar to third, but Coby Mayo is a-comin' and Westberg wasn't good enough to force Gunnar to off of short)
Hey, Joe, you should put together a post where you create softball teams from celebrities and people from pop culture. Maybe even do a draft with Schur. That’d be fun.
Don't try this trick, trust me. When my only sister got married, the bachelor party was held at a strip club. My father, a totally strait laced fellow and a retired Rear Admiral was there and we all held our breath. He sat as far from the stage as he could and swapped Navy stories with the groom's dad, also a retired Navy Officer. My baby brother and I didn't know what to do and then we came up with an idea. We would watch each performer and then discuss what position they would play on the club softball team. We rated them on athleticism, speed of maneuvers. apparent arm strength, etc. Made for a memorable evening and a good memory.
Who would you put there? My son is 14, and the guy we laugh with the most by far is Brian Regan. Jim Gaffigan has been awesome, but after doing it so long, I'm not sure he has anything new to say. Bargatze's SNL clip on the forefathers may be the best thing on that show in 25 years.
Brian Regan may be the MVP but I don't get shortstop vibes from him. While I know we're speaking in metaphor here, I can't get past his bit about how bad he was at Little League.
I feel like he's the veteran starting pitcher on this team—a 2022 vintage Justin Verlander if you will.
And to extend your Jim Gaffigan mention, he's like late career Frank Thomas. Nothing new, but still good for 40 homers.
Quick correction re Washington Nationals. Dave Martinez has been their manager for 7 straight years, 2018-2024, from Bryce Harper to the present. It's funny though - I moved to DC a couple of years ago and one of the first questions I asked my baseball-loving neighbor was whether Martinez was still the Nationals' manager. Like Joe, apparently, I was under the impression that the Nats had changed managers at some point. But he quickly pointed out to me that Davy was still there. Odd how I thought he had been replaced at some point...
I really hope that Tito Francona can be Yoda to EDLC’s Luke Skywalker, Dumbledore to his Harry Potter, Gandalf to his Frodo. If that happens, Elly may have a year that has never be seen before.
How many times have we declared this is the "Golden Age of Shortstops" only to have another "Golder Age" arrive later? A lot ... and I love it. I'm old enough to remember, barely, when the normal shortstops were like Mark Belanger and Chris Speier. I'll never forget the ARod-Nomar-Jeter trio and how often I'd tried to include Tejada in that foursome. Looking at these lists now, my goodness, the 1990s/2000s have nothing on the current crop of shortstops. MLB is like Little League now. The best player is at shortstop ... and I feel like that's how it SHOULD be.
You're right, and I think it comes in cycles, with every Golden Age feeling relative to a recent lull preceding it.
In 2024, had Witt Jr. with 10.4 fWAR, Henderson at 8.0, Lindor at 7.8, De La Cruz at 6.4, and several others with 4+ fWAR. That's quite a bit better than 2003 (ARod's last year at short) on the top end, while still having more depth.
But we could look at the midway point, 2014, and see that Jhonny Peralta led the way with 4.6 fWAR, and Erick Aybar and Ian Desmond were the only others more than 4 fWAR. The early 2000s were way better than the early-mid 2010s.
Gunnar has the ability to be a great shortstop, with crazy range and speed, and a ferocity to the way with which he gloves the ball and fires it to first on the run. But he's very young and prone to mental lapses, like last year when he was determined to have the most errors in baseball, during an era where they really don't want to credit you with one. It was alarming down the stretch when everybody on the O's started to fade outside of Zach Eflin. I imagine Gunnar (as well as Adley) levels up even further this coming season while learning to play a little more under control and harness the obviously immense talent he has. You could put him anywhere from #1 to #5 and could make a case. However, even as an O's fan, there's no way in hell he's above Bobby Witt Jr. right now.
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but when MLB Network does their ranking, don't they look back at the last 2 years of data? So you may have had an amazing rookie year, but because it's just that, 1 year, they'll rank you lower than you might deserve to be. Or say a guy like Justin Turner, who was a utility man for a few years until it finally "clicked" with the Dodgers, I don't think he was as highly rated thar next season because he had 1 year of being a utility guy and 1 year of being the Star JT he became with LA.
Is it just me, or do the letters on the typewriter spell “Joeblofs”?
An actual QWERTY keyboard has rows of 10, 9, and 7 letters.
This keyboard has, inexplicably, 9, 8, and 9... which does add up to 26 letters, but they will all be "wrong" somehow, because some letters must be out of place.
I was coming here to post this exact thing.
Thanks! I missed that. 😅
Can't disagree. The average subscriber would struggle to come up with their own list, simply because most of us follow either the American or National League but not both. Interleague helps a bit but not enough. This problem becomes tougher with a primarily defensive position like shortstop or catcher. Taking the coward's way out, Joe is 100% correct.
Brief rabbit hole. Mariner fans loved Omar Vazquez when he played in Seattle. People would sometimes come early just to watch him take infield. But, viewed through the eyes of a GM, you would come to realize he was a consummate showman but only a little above average as a defender. Now we have J. P. Crawford. He makes more dazzling plays than any shortstop in our division (including Corey Seager) but ranks as a below average fielder. I guess the experts are trying to tell me he does wonderful things when he gets to the ball, but doesn't get there as often as the great shortstops. Reminds me of Brilliant Reader Benjamin, J.'s post of a day or two ago where he talked about an outfielder who made great diving catches not being as valuable as an outfielder who gets to the ball earlier and makes a routine catch.
And they Loved Omar in Cleveland, loved him. One thing he did do, over time - he improved his on base skills, so they sometimes slotted him in leadoff/2nd in the lineup. Similarly, Lindor was moved to leadoff - VOILA! Not a direct compare, for years those Cardinal fans kept telling us - Omar doesn't compare to the Wizard. He really doesn't but he was a joy to watch! Since moving to DC area, in 2019-2020 Howie Kendrick was fun!
Of course, then, Baltimore sneezed, and the Nationals went into the "Big Sleep". In 2020 they hailed Dave Martinez - winningest mgr. for Nats, and then, hibernation! Speaking of bad contracts - Steven Strasburg - some deferred $$$+ deferred $$$ for Scherzer -No wonder Nats have nothing for 5 yrs. Eerily similar to the Tigers with the last 5 yrs. of Miggy's contract - Burdensome.
Don't disagree with the 1-4 Joe! Spot on! Plus, they're all young except Lindor. But since he bats leadoff now, he'll shine on offense. Correa & the Twins, maybe the Central's version of the Angels. Their stars, always get hurt @ the wrong time - Correa, Buxton, Lewis, Kepler, Rosario etc. Of course, the Tigers have Baez - another albatross contract. But the Royals, who've given the Guardians ... "fits"... Is the real deal! and he's young!
Joe - after listening to your video on HOF - you mentioned Frank Duffy! OMG. The Duffer played 1.5 positions when Oscar Gamble played left! He was instructed to run as fast as possible to LF to relay the cutoff throw!
Where have you gone - Lou Klimchock?
This goes back to when Bill James positional lists, but he was correct then and you are correct now. The goal is "right now" and so many of these lists are ranking careers because they don't want to insult someone who was probably best 2-3 years ago. Your list is way better. James would always look forward, like you are doing. I don't care who was best 3 years ago.
Obviously, shortstop is the Sarah Langs of baseball positions because she’s synonymous with “best in field” regardless of field.
I'm an Orioles fan and I love Gunnar to death. I think he's already our best play, even over Adley, and he will continue to be the better player. He's the rock of the franchise.
And even I would take Bobby Witt Jr over Gunnar Henderson at shortstop.
(I'd love to move Gunnar to third, but Coby Mayo is a-comin' and Westberg wasn't good enough to force Gunnar to off of short)
I think the Dodgers would be best to move Mookie Betts to starting pitcher.
Mookie is the best at the Swiss Army Knife all positions spot.
Nick Offerman seems like a first baseman to me.
Hey, Joe, you should put together a post where you create softball teams from celebrities and people from pop culture. Maybe even do a draft with Schur. That’d be fun.
Don't try this trick, trust me. When my only sister got married, the bachelor party was held at a strip club. My father, a totally strait laced fellow and a retired Rear Admiral was there and we all held our breath. He sat as far from the stage as he could and swapped Navy stories with the groom's dad, also a retired Navy Officer. My baby brother and I didn't know what to do and then we came up with an idea. We would watch each performer and then discuss what position they would play on the club softball team. We rated them on athleticism, speed of maneuvers. apparent arm strength, etc. Made for a memorable evening and a good memory.
A draft? How amusing that would be!
Nate Bargatze isn't even the shortstop of the family friendly dad humor all-comedy team. C'mon now
Reminds me so much of Uecker he must be a catcher.
Who would you put there? My son is 14, and the guy we laugh with the most by far is Brian Regan. Jim Gaffigan has been awesome, but after doing it so long, I'm not sure he has anything new to say. Bargatze's SNL clip on the forefathers may be the best thing on that show in 25 years.
Brian Regan, former WR for the Heidelberg University (OH) Student Princes.
Brian Regan may be the MVP but I don't get shortstop vibes from him. While I know we're speaking in metaphor here, I can't get past his bit about how bad he was at Little League.
I feel like he's the veteran starting pitcher on this team—a 2022 vintage Justin Verlander if you will.
And to extend your Jim Gaffigan mention, he's like late career Frank Thomas. Nothing new, but still good for 40 homers.
His baseball bit is incredibly funny and relatable though. Who doesn't love a no hit-no field kid?
I dunno about that. Weekend Update has been hilarious.
Why is it 5280 feet? Nobody knows.
The feet they know, it's the yards that "nobody knows"! Keenan Thomson - what of men of color? Nate (Washington) just ignores him...
What's incredible about the whole skit is that the French had not even implemented the metric system in 1777, yet it's still funny as heck.
I'd say Regan. Nate Bargatze does scratch my introverted itch, though
Joe, your list is better. Witt Jr. is the #1 shortstop. Very happy you had Masyn Winn on your list.
Quick correction re Washington Nationals. Dave Martinez has been their manager for 7 straight years, 2018-2024, from Bryce Harper to the present. It's funny though - I moved to DC a couple of years ago and one of the first questions I asked my baseball-loving neighbor was whether Martinez was still the Nationals' manager. Like Joe, apparently, I was under the impression that the Nats had changed managers at some point. But he quickly pointed out to me that Davy was still there. Odd how I thought he had been replaced at some point...
I really hope that Tito Francona can be Yoda to EDLC’s Luke Skywalker, Dumbledore to his Harry Potter, Gandalf to his Frodo. If that happens, Elly may have a year that has never be seen before.
Seager played 151 G in ‘22, Joe